Tuesday, July 16, 2013

Stand Your Ground

An empty face reflects extinction
Ugly scars divide the nation
Desecrate the population
There will be no exaltation
--The Fixx

During the recent George Zimmerman murder trial, a Florida statute known as the 'Stand Your Ground' law was brought into the spotlight by the media. The statute can be found here (see clause 3). Despite the media attention, the law was not central in the Zimmerman trial deliberations.

However, the applicability of Stand Your Ground to the Zimmerman case is not the issue to be discussed here. Instead, we consider the validity of the Stand Your Ground provision itself which has been questioned by some.

As I read it, the Florida statute says that people in a public place and not breaking the law have no 'duty to retreat' if attacked. Instead, they have the right to 'stand their ground' and meet 'force with force' to defend themselves. If defenders reasonably believe that they or others face grave threat, then they are justified in applying deadly force to quell the aggressor.

This statute is wholly consistent with the natural rights of man famously elaborated by Jefferson. All people have rights to life, liberty, and property. These rights are inalienable, meaning that they cannot be legitimately revoked by any human entity.

If aggressors seek to invade the rightful pursuits of others, then individuals have the right to defend themselves against such aggression. While they may choose to back away, they have no 'duty to retreat.' Instead, defenders have a duty to select a level of defensive force commensurate with neutralizing the threat.

Yes, a defender could use poor judgment and employ more counterforce than necessary to stop an attack. Whether the level of force applied was appropriate or excessive in a particular case may be for a jury of peers to decide.

That errors in judgment can be made does not diminish the right of defenders to render such judgment in order to protect their person and property against aggression deemed as life-threatening. Each of us was born with this right and the responsibility that goes with it.

If self-defense is a God-given right, then why is an explicit Stand Your Ground provision even necessary? Isn't it obvious? After all, few states have adopted Stand Your Ground provisions. Even the Zimmerman prosecutors indicated that, with the provision, self defense law "really hasn't changed all that much."

One explanation parallels the reason why the Bill of Rights was written. Many original proponents of the Constitution argued that an elaboration of individual rights was not necessary, because any powers not explicitly delegated to the federal government in the Constitution implicitly remained with the people.

Those wary of government's all-consuming appetite for power, such as the anti-federalists, were skeptical of such claims. They argued that individual rights were more likely to be compromised if those rights weren't written down for all to see. As such, ratification of the Constitution in some states was conditional on the development of an explicit bill of individual rights.

Of course, writing them down does not guarantee that rights will not be abused by the State. Many antifederalists, for example, suspected that the design put forth in the Constitution would result in an expansive government that would overpower individual rights even if those rights were elaborated as written law.

But writing does raise awareness. People who understand their God-given right to stand their ground and defend themselves are more aware of situations where other people want to take that freedom away.

21 comments:

dgeorge12358 said...

It is painful and heartbreaking to say and write this, but horrifically it is true. Blacks kill more blacks in a weekend in Chicago than the evil, vile Ku Klux Klan idiots did in 50 years. Truly earth shattering insane. And not a peep from Obama or Holder. Tragic.
~Ted Nugent, July 15, 2013

katie ford hall said...

Stand your ground did matter in this case. Zimmerman was not arrested for over a month and no evidence was collected because the police believed that stand your ground laws didn't allow them to do so.

Also, the jury received direct instructions on the stand your ground law.

Zimmerman likely didn't invoke it because it would have been a bench trial, not a jury trial. His defense team probably calculated that he would have a better chance with a jury. They have also indicated that if he is sued in civil court, they will submit a stand your ground writ to prevent him from having to be held responsible.

And, Don... Ted Nugent. The same Ted Nugent who recently compared feral pigs to people to live in South Central Los Angeles, as he kindly offered to gun them down from a helicopter? The same one who admits to have a sexual affair with a 12 year old Courtney Love? The same one who invited Hillary Clinton to suck on the barrel of his gun? I wouldn't want that guy on my team.

Matt, I understand you don't want to discuss the Zimmerman case. I don't either. I just want to clarify that SYG most certainly did have a direct impact on this case.

fordmw said...

By law, the police needed a reason to doubt Zimmerman’s self-defense claim, whether there was a stand your ground (SYG) provision or not. Investigation was required to find probable cause. The statute is here:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.032.html

Nothing in this statute prohibits investigation of probable cause due to SYG. It took 6 wks before investigators could develop probable cause. Even states that impose ‘duty to retreat’ provisions require probable cause before arresting someone who claims self-defense. (4th Amendment)

That said, the stated point in the beginning of my post was that SYG was not central to the Zimmerman trial deliberations. Under our legal system, a defense does not have to ‘invoke’ any law or prove innocence. Instead, burden of proof rests w the prosecution that the defendant is guilty of breaking the law.

In this case, the *prosecution* did not invoke the SYG law. It appears that the prosecution did not do so because the law could not be applied. The defendant claimed to be pinned to the ground. Because he was being attacked in a position that did not permit choice between retreating or standing, SYG was irrelevant. The prosecution did not argue or produce evidence otherwise in the courtroom.

dgeorge12358 said...

Agree that TN may have been overly dramatic making the observation that others too have made regarding the media and politico's sensationalization of the incident. Why no national coverage of the 34 shootings on July 4th in Chicago?

katie ford hall said...

No, Matt. Zimmerman initially asserted a SYG defense, the night of the shooting. That's why police didn't arrest him. Since there was no arrest, there was no collection of evidence. His lawyers would have had to file a motion to use SYG as a defense. They didn't do that, but have said that they still will to provide him civil immunity if it comes to that.

The judge instructed the jury that Z was under no obligation to retreat, which is the SYG law. In fact, the juror who was interviewed yesterday said that's why they didn't find him guilty.

katie ford hall said...

Don, violence in Chicago is not a secret. It is discussed often in the media, and by President Obama.

Nugent is a crackpot who directly threatens people. That is not on par with what some would call "media bias."

katie ford hall said...

Wonder, too, if you've read about FL's other SYG cases.

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases

fordmw said...

An individual can assert whatever he/she wants, but that does not preclude nor absolve law enforcement from investigating the case or arresting the individual if probable cause that the individual acted unlawfully is found. An arrest requires probable cause (4thA); SYG does not by statute, and cannot by right, make someone immune from investigation.

One would think this would dawn on your typical reporter/journalist and spawn more questions about the mainline narrative being offered.

A judge may inform a jury about a law. A judge cannot rightfully interpret evidence for jurors in light of a law. Again, as presented in the trial, Zimmerman was pinned to the ground under attack. Because 'no obligation to retreat' has no relevance in this situation, SYG does not apply to the case as presented.

While I enjoy these conversations, it does strike me that we are engaged in a trivial argument. Whether SYG or DTR statutes (or neither) are in place, it became clear to me while writing the original post that all self-defense cases, if they are prosecuted justly, boil down to whether individuals used reasonably appropriate judgment when exercising their natural right to defend against aggression.

dgeorge12358 said...

Finally, we have the clearly proven element of Martin smashing Zimmerman’s head into the sidewalk. If I picked up a chunk of concrete or cement and tried to smash your skull with it, you would certainly realize that you were about to die or be horribly brain-damaged if you didn’t stop me. It would be what the statutes call “a deadly weapon, to wit a bludgeon.” There just isn’t a whole hell of a lot of difference between cement being smashed into head, and head being smashed into cement.

Clearly, Trayvon Martin possessed the power to kill or cripple Zimmerman. That is why, under law, Zimmerman was justified in defending himself with a per se deadly weapon.

The jury got it.
~Massad Ayoob

fordmw said...

There is more to it than that. If Zimmerman had been the aggressor and first applied lethal force of his own, and Martin was countering w what he deemed to be appropriate defense, then Martin would have been right and Zimmerman wrong.

However, the story as presented nor the evidence established Zimmerman as the aggressor.

katie ford hall said...

The way I understand it, self defense (in non-SYG cases) could only be invoked as a defense if one's life is in danger. If you wanted to use that in trial, you had to prove your life was in danger.

Now, with SYG laws, there is no such burden of proof on a person who has killed another.

Zimmerman had no evidence of this. We have no idea how the altercation started between the two of them, except his story that cannot be proven or disproved. There was no evidence collected at the scene and there are no witnesses.

On his injuries, again, we don't know if he was the aggressor or not. Perhaps Martin was the one acting in self-defense, but we'll never know. With SYG, you don't have to be in actual danger, you just have to believe you are.

That Z was not able to win a fist fight with a kid who weighed 30 pounds less than him is not grounds for murder. In fact, he was examined at the scene and his injuries were minor. He refused medical treatment.

If you looked at the upcoming cases, there is a man who said that a car full of black kids pulled up next to him and one pulled out a shotgun. So believing he was in danger, he killed, I can't remember how many of them, but at least one of course. He is asserting SYG, although investigators found no shotgun. I am interested to see how this goes.

But it's clear that SYG, while not invoked as a defense in the Z case, played a role. It was given to the jury by the judge as instruction. You don't need to invoke a SYG defense in a SYG case to have the law apply to you.

katie ford hall said...

Here are the details of the case with the non-existent shotgun I mentioned.

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_259

fordmw said...

As noted earlier, a judge can explain a law to the jury, but a law's relevance to the case is borne out in the trial.

As presented in the case, when Zimmerman was pinned to the ground by an aggressor who was applying force construed as lethal, SYG was no longer relevant because Zimmerman had no choice to stand or retreat. He could either defend, or lay there and take it.

But as mentioned before, the more I think about it, whether SYG applies in this case is trivial. The SYG law requires ^reasonable* (important word) belief that lethal defense force was required to neutralize the threat.

Whether a SYG provision is in place or not, a justly tried self-defense case must *always* consider whether the defendant used reasonable judgment in employing the realized measure of counterforce.

If the prosecution has reason to believe that the defender used poor judgment, then it must convince the jury. It was unable to do so in this case.

katie ford hall said...

Of course it does. Before SYG, self defense laws were based on the English common law. Specific here is the principle of chance-medley, meaning if two people get into a fight and one ends up dead, the killer can be excused, only if it's shown that s/he tried to get out of the situation. SYG completely changed that. A person no longer has a duty to try to get away from a bad situation.

Additionally, a key provision of SYG was not given to the jury. If you are the aggressor, you are obligated to retreat. The defense argued to the judge that it should not be included and won.

Zimmerman did not prove that Martin was the aggressor. His injuries were minor. Without stand your ground, that wouldn't have been enough. It could have been that he attacked or tried to detain Martin, in which case Martin was Standing His Ground. We just don't know.

Morally, it's clear that Zimmerman created this situation by stalking an innocent kid. Legal wranglings aside, it's just downright wrong that he is left unpunished while a kid who was committing no crime is dead. I think if you're looking for truth, this cannot be forgotten.

fordmw said...

As presented in the case, the central situation is this: Martin turned on Zimmerman, took him to the ground, and was beating his head against the sidewalk. To defend against this attack, Zimmerman employed lethal force as a countermeasure.

The prosecution must prove that this was not justifiable self-defense. To do so, it has to prove that either a) Martin was not the aggressor, or b) Zimmerman used poor judgment in how he responded to the attack.

Little else matters. Similar burdens of proof are required for *all* justly tried self-defense cases—regardless of whether SYG is in place.

The prosecution in the Zimmerman case could prove neither to the jury.

katie ford hall said...

Matt, that is only the way it works in SYG states. Elsewhere, you have to prove that using deadly force was justified. That's what makes this new SYG law so radical.

katie ford hall said...

In the criminal law, the duty to retreat is a specific component which sometimes appears in the defense of self-defense, and which must be addressed if the defendant is to prove that his or her conduct was justified. In those jurisdictions where the requirement exists, the burden of proof is on the defense to show that the defendant was acting reasonably. This is often taken to mean that the defendant had first avoided conflict and secondly, had taken reasonable steps to retreat and so demonstrated an intention not to fight before eventually using force.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_retreat

In a non-SYG state, it would have been the defense's job to prove the use of deadly force was justified, not the prosecution's job to prove it wasn't justified.

fordmw said...

Perhaps I am mixing my legal terms (e.g.,’ burden of proof’) here, but because, in a just system, anyone accused of a crime is innocent until proven guilty, the legal burden always lies with the prosecution to prove that the accused has broken the law. The default position never is that the accused must prove innocence.

In cases involving self-defense, this means that the prosecution must convincingly demonstrate that either a) the accused was the aggressor, or b) that the accused acted unreasonably. Cases that are justly tried require the prosecution to do this because of the underlying principle stated in our nation’s first law that people have the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

After the prosecution has presented its case, the defense may present arguments and evidence otherwise—i.e., that the accused was not the aggressor or that the accused acted reasonably.

As long as the law is grounded in the principles of presumption of innocence and that people have the inalienable right to be secure in their person and property, then this must be the course of self-defense trial proceedings regardless of how a statute reads.

katie ford hall said...

I don't think I'm trying to mince words here.

You and I are in a dark alley. I decide to kill you. I tell the police that you were going to kill me.

If they put me on trial for murder in a non stand your ground state, I have to prove that the use of lethal force was my only option, after I tried to get away from the situation. I have to prove that I was in immediate danger. I have to provide evidence that this was true -- physical evidence or corroborating witnesses. That is my defense to the murder charges.

In a stand your ground state, I don't have to prove that I tried to get away. I don't have to prove that I was in immediate danger and had no other alternative. I only have to convince a jury that it was reasonable that I believed I was in imminent danger.

This is no matter of whether I invoke stand your ground as a plea for immunity or not.

This is a radical redefining of self defense.

katie ford hall said...

Here's a real world example.

Garcia looked out his window and saw Roteta trying to steal his car stereo. Garcia grabbed a knife, went outside, chased him for several blocks, caught him and stabbed him to death.

Roteta had a bag full of stolen radios and a small pocket knife that was unopened in his pocket.

Self defense?

A Florida judge threw out the charges against Garcia last year, citing the SYG law.

My example was not so hypothetical.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/22/149153379/stand-your-ground-miami-judge-decides-fatal-stabbing-was-self-defense

fordmw said...

"This is a radical redefining of self-defense."

Bid to disagree. New blog post tomorrow to explain why.